100 thoughts on “I Learned Dvorak So You Don’t Have To

  1. i thought this was going to be about the composer dvorak but instead i learned about an alternative keyboard layout at 3:30am and i’m not mad about it

  2. Here's the overlooked reason why qwerty is definitely superior to Dvorak: On Dvorak, most words are on 1 row making the muscle memory for each word very similar and difficult to differentiate while you're trying to type fast. So although Dvorak may be more ergonomic, it's ease of use that's always the name of the game when it comes to technology.

  3. "On Linux however there's not really a good way to do that as of yet because of Xorg limitations"
    What is xmodmap
    Also, imo, with the right (n)vimrc you can end up with a superior experience

  4. well I use QWERTZ because that's the default for hungarian keyboards and yes it's annoying but sadly I did not bother to learn any other layout.

  5. As a French, I have started to learn the layout "BÉPO". That is specific to the French language.

    Learning it have taken some time, and after two month training, I am not yet as proficient as my normal layout, but feel confident enough to use it every day at work, where I guess it will improve greatly.

    To bypass some problems like the "ctrl + c / v / x" shortcut, I invested in a typeMatrix keyboard (as I also wanted to have aligned keys)

  6. When I was younger I really wanted to be able to talk to people and continue to click with my mouse simultaneously while playing games, I found that very hard with QWERTY but in my quest for a solution I discovered DVORAK for left hand users which is a specific form of DVORAK made for typing solely with your left hand. I just decided "ok, I'm going to make this my keyboard layout and use it tell I don't need to think about it." Took about a year and a half until I was set, I type at ~60wpm with my left hand.

  7. If you're having issues with diacritics you need to check out "compose key" support in linux. Once one gets used to it you can type them fairly quickly.

    My testimonial on Dvorak: I'm a professional developer and I've averaged easily 10+ hrs a day (in the week at least) in front of a PC for the last … I dunno 16 years or so? (I work, come home, then do other stuff until I go to sleep basically). Before I switched to dvorak (in my early 20's) I had RSI issues and was looking into all kinds of alternative input methods to help alleviate some of my problems. I was pretty much a touch-typist by the time I was 18 but the sheer amount of time I spent coding in university was destroying my wrists and hands.

    Dvorak solved this, just through the fact that the amount of movement, on average, is so much lower. It was tough going getting used to it, and I was also doing a lot of work in vim at the time, but… the learning curve was overcome quicker than I'd anticipated and I soon found my typing problems were now becoming more about timing the keystrokes, as on the dvorak I'd reach keys, on balance, faster than I'd done before I ended up typing "at" as "ta", and so on…. by mistake just because I wasn't used to my typing "flowing" quite so nicely.

    That's the part that's hard to describe to people because even when I look at the best QWERTY guys I've ever seen…. dudes with 20+ years of prof. dev experience… it still looks pretty uncomfortable and "staccato" to me. Whereas since switching to the dvorak I feel a LOT more "fluent" on the keys. It just flows so much better. Side benefit: Deniers who call me out and want to go head-to-head in typing speed tests always lose.

    And yes, people not being able to use any PC I own or work at has been a big plus. For a while I sucked at qwerty but over the years I've learnt to be fairly proficient at it again despite now using dvorak almost exclusively (even on my phone).

  8. I've been using both QWERTY and Dvorak for close to a decade on a practically daily basis. In terms of speed, learning Dvorak really didn't benefit me because my QWERTY speed has been ~120 wpm for about 15 years and my Dvorak speed still doesn't come close. In terms of comfort, it didn't benefit me either because I've never had any discomfort typing (except for that time I played Typing of the Dead for too long, maybe). I don't regret learning Dvorak, but like Wolfgang, I wouldn't recommend it to anybody unless they're genuinely interested and committed. (I also use a Linux machine when not gaming.)

  9. I have to switch to my french keyboard quite a lot, so i had to get used to the AZERTY layout. It's a pretty minor difference but it was still confusing in the beginning given the speeds I type at. I would finish typing like three or four words before I realised I'd made a mistake.

  10. It's a persistent belief that QWERTY was developed to slow typists down because typewriters would lock up. There were people winning type speed contests with 100+ wpm before the development of QWERTY.

    QWERTY was designed with language use in mind, but not with the laborious statistical analysis that drove Dvorak's design. The goal of QWERTY was for frequently-used words like "the", "and", "but" and so on to get alternating hand use.

  11. I learned Dvorak in college, and gaming controls are eventually what make me drop it. I could deal with learning the new layout no problem, but the never ending cycle of remapping controls was too much apparently.

  12. I'm an even smaller section that uses a variant called Programmer Dvorak that messes with the number row too. It took twice as long to get used to that as it did the alphabet part but 1 and 0's are way more comfortable to type the few times I need to type a lot of them. Really probably isn't worth it for most though.

  13. The time spent learning Dvorak could be used to learn Vim instead, which has the benefit of actually being faster than using a mouse. ;^)

  14. The music composer whose picture you're using has nothing to do with the Dvorak keyboard layout… Such research on your side.

  15. Is there a keyboard layout optimized for two thumb typing for things like smartphone keyboards? Or is that just advanced hunt and peck?

  16. I've noticed a lot of people type between 70 and 100 wpm without touch typing. they use effectively a ten-finger hunt and peck and they're very fast at it. I started doing that after, as a touch typist, I started having pains in my wrists.

    Actually that's not what I did. At least, not directly. I started using a Microsoft Natural keyboard which was then a new product, and it helped. Actually it helped a lot. But it only helped on my own computer on my own desktop. When I had to use a laptop or a computer that wasn't my own, I fell back to touch typing. And finally after I wore out the domes on my Microsoft keyboard (and a couple of replacements from Addesso), and after finding I needed to use more laptop than desktop more of the time, I realized I was going to have to go back to a standard QWERTY keyboard. I home on F and J, then raise my hands above the keyboard in the position I held them for the MS keyboard. And I just type, hands generally kept at a comfortable angle. The finger most comfortably close to a key is the one that tends to press that key.

    I find that other people do this too, and I'm far from the first person to invent the idea. Oddly, for general typing I find I don't use my ring fingers much . I use my left thumb, and the index, middle, and pinky fingers of each hand. I use my ring fingers on either hand when using the arrow keys. Left when gaming, right when navigating.

    It tends to work very well unless you stop typing and don't home yourself before you start again. If you do that, one of your hands will be making off-by-one -column typing errors at 100wpm. That's annoying.

  17. I imagine that many Dvorak users appreciate Dvorak layouts on their tiny mobile devices for the same reason that i like qwerty on my mine; i don't have to hunt for keys, because i already know where they are. (My dedicated GPS device has an alphabetical keyboard, and i hate it!)

  18. expected classical music, got keyboard layout
    edit: i dont understand why youtube waited for 6 months before recommending this video

  19. 4:10 you are absolutely wrong, you can do that very easily on linux.
    for xorg, the command is setxkbmap, and you could bind a key with sxhkd to do that for you

  20. I learned Dvorak a half year ago, and I came to the same conclusion, maybe slightly better at typing. shortcuts are horrible.
    a fun experiment to learn, but I wouldn't advise people to start learn it.
    But I won't change back to qwerty, even though I still keep a qwerty keyboard nearby for my games.

  21. i used Dvorak for a while, it was good, but the fact that every game was a key rebinding mess eventually stooped being fun

  22. One thing I hate about QWERTY layout is that the workload in puts on each hand is imbalance. English words have a lot of r, t, w, a, e so my left hand has to do most of the work.

  23. SHIFT+CTRL (Windows though) at the same time…. Yes, that works perfect for switching between one and two hand movements and is ESSENTIAL for switching since gamemakers are fucking narcissistic assholes that don't code in an autoswitch feature so that you don't have to switch the layout before starting the game…. CS:GO… Well, Riot Games is good at least. They have no problem with multiple keyboard layouts. I use SVorak which is the Swedish version of it. Took a month to get into use properly I think. Can't remember, between 2-4 weeks anyway. I know that the first day was a hazard, I didn't use the applications I just switched it and then switched to it on the phone and used a ninja version, meaning no letters on screen. You learn using it very fast, but qwerty is not anything that I can use, 2 words a minute or something for me haha.

  24. I use Dvorak Programmer and it suits my needs. I think it is a no brainer for who uses the computer for more than 2h per day.

  25. This got recommend by the almighty YouTube algorithm
    Saw intro
    Saw the Vim logo flash on the screen for 2 frames
    Subscribed

  26. I appreciate different set ups, but if you go hipster and try alternative shit, it's annoying using standard shit. I have this issue. Most of the time it's not worth the hassle.

  27. I installed the German keyboard so I can type the letter ß (That's called "eszett"). I always type a Y when I wanted a Z because German uses QWERTZ. The Z and Y were switched around.

  28. Number one reason to use QWERTY rather than DVORAK: just in case you ever have to use a computer that isn't owned by you.

  29. I feel like once you've mastered the qwerty layout (can type consistently above 120WPM), then switching to dvorak is really not necessary. Maybe Dvorak would be useful for a newer typist however. Because qwerty is just so deeply burned into my muscle memory

  30. I never actually practised touch-typing qwerty, so the day I actually tried to learn to do it, I learned Dvorak. On linux, I have aliased "asdf=xsetkblayout dvorak" and "aoeu=xsetkblayout us" so that I can switch easily on the homerow.

  31. I think this all applies to "proper typing" on which is more comfortable and easier or faster. I sort of rolled out my own typing strategy when I was a kid, never could learn the "proper" way to type. Despite that I have a fast typing speed and in college I would often transcribe the professors lecture in real-time as they were talking to which all my classmates were wanting to get digital copies of his or her lecture lol.

    But point is I think this video focuses on the keyboards and the reason their created and which is better all from the standpoint that everyone positions their hands and such the same way on the keyboard so which letters positioned where would be beneficial to everyone or not while not taking into consideration that not everyone necessarily types the same way and still achieves a high wpm thus defeating the point of letters being in different positions.

    Oh and fun fact, I remember seeing in a magazine about a magnetic keyboard where you could arrange the letters as you wanted. I never actually heard anything else about it after the magazine entry so I always wondered what became of it but it's really fascinating reading about creative, new, and innovative keyboard ideas even in modern times.

  32. So, using Dvorak isn't worthwhile and people won't use it because all programs are designed almost specifically for QWERTY keyboards. Vice-versa, software isn't written with Dvorak in mind because nobody uses Dvorak. Yet Dvorak is actually provably better than QWERTY for typing.

    "I'm tired of trying to do something worthwhile for the human race. They simply don't want to change." – August Dvorak

    I know that feel.

  33. I personally use a keyboard on Android called "Messagease". It's a keyboard specifically designed for touch screens. It has a lot of great features (like more international symbols like ö, ñ, í, ¡¿). It also didn't really take too long for me to learn, though I never cared for the normal keyboards to begin with. And yes, I wrote this entire comment with this keyboard

  34. I've used dvorak as my primary layout for almost ten years now. I may not type much faster than if I had stuck with qwerty, but it's a hell of a lot more comfortable. In windows and linux (idk about osx) you can use ctrl + shift (or whatever you want) to switch between layouts. Some games support dvorak by default, but most do not. You can just switch the layout back to qwerty for gaming, no big deal.

  35. Most of my keyboard usage is with gaming. I don't have to actually type a bunch on a daily basis and I also have to use a work laptop so it would be really odd to switch between two keyboard layouts every day, especially if I pretty much use my desktop just for gaming.

  36. Actually, typing in Dvorak is quite pleasing… I use a German keyboard, but hopefully I can find an English Dvorak or what for a German Keyboard.

  37. Title: Dvorak (me thinking of Antonin Dvorak)
    Channel name: Wolfgang (me thinking of Mozart)

    Damn it, I though I was watching a classical music video.

  38. There’s an extremely underwhelming amount of classical music for a channel called Wolfgang talking about Dvórak…

  39. What the fuck was that laugh at 4:25 that shit was hilarious with the vim cheat sheet i got a good laugh out of that

  40. wow after you said that "minimum" challenge at first it was easy… i realised i forgot the "i" after the "n" and then it took me around 6 trys or around 8 seconds…. yay you wasted 8 seconds of my life and made my brain blow up and yes i know this comment took me more then 8 seconds to type shut up nerd

  41. The whole "it works for English, but not other languages" argument is kinda invalid. In France, you don't use QWERTY; AZERTY is the standard. Germany? QWERTZ. There exist more ergonomic layouts for languages other than English, such as Bépo for French.

    The worst part for touch typists is that you're re-training your muscle memory with the same keys in different locations, effectively overwriting your existing muscle memory. It's not like learning a second language where "grande" is analogous to "large"; you're overwriting the word "large" and using "grande" in its place, even if you meant "large". For most decently fast typists, this means you can only reliably touch type in Dvorak or a different layout, never both. Some people do manage to effectively type in both QWERTY and Dvorak, but I imagine it requires active practice of both. Personally, as a native English speaker, I prefer Dvorak, but everything is QWERTY, so that's what I use.

    There are also nonstandard keyboards like the Ergodox or Kinesis Advantage2 that can affect that same muscle memory adversely. Ergonomics are a great reason to switch keyboards/layouts, but it's unlikely to be a good idea to switch if you want a job involving lots of typing. The only solutions are to bring your own keyboard (plugging unauthorized personal devices into the computer is forbidden usually) or change the keyboard layout in software (assuming your company's security policy allows it). Otherwise, you're stuck with QWERTY or whatever you're forced to use.

  42. Actually, Dvorak on mobile devices CAN be better. I have diabetic nerve damage, and the reduced travel with everything being in home row over having to stretch my thumbs every other letter to the other rows feels considerably better for me than using QWERTY on mobile.

  43. You should really try out the neo-layout.org
    Solves most of your problems: made for German / English, solves shortcuts, is probably more ergonomic than Dvorak, has the amazing Mod3 layer that adds arrow keys to ESDF (so amazing, can't go back), has good support for all OSs etc. I made a mod that auto switches to qwertz when you open any from a list of programs, so that's good for games

  44. If only people choose to follow the dvorak design long ago almost all the disadvantages would simple not exist, WASD would be 'AOE, ctrl+Q/J/K for cut, copy and paste, and all of us would be typing in dvorak

  45. The person in the picture is Antonín Dvořák a Czech composer ,while the one that you are reffering to is August Dvorak an American phycologist,professor and designer. Please correct it.

  46. I've been using Dvorak on my phone for a while, and the best it's done is give me a good excuse to quickly swap my keyboard layout for someone wanting to type on my phone to avoid sharing some awkward word suggestions.

    Also, contractions are far more convenient for the apostrophe is just above e.

  47. In france we have our own equivalent of Dvorak, it's called BEPO, it's like Dvorak vut for french, so we have accents. It sounds good but it's bad for people who also go on the english internet, because it's not made to type in english.

  48. The only reason to learn Dvorak is so when someone else sits down to use your computer, they give up after about 0.2 seconds if they see your keyboard letters rearranged. Sometimes they'll go so far as trying to type something. Better security than a password

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